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Judith
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #150 on: Sep 17th, 2010, 2:19pm »

Alex- could you describe some of the Hershmann work? And did you see the unfortunate picture of him with a Friesian stallion?
I also notice , with pleasure, a certain dressage star gave up her court action against a journalist who believed her 'hyperflexion ' [ or lets just call it torture, as thats what it is] was bad. I guess even she must realise that any non dressage person , whather horsey or not , would see it as a horrible for the horse to endure. I think its only in the closed world of competitive dressage that this pulling in stuff is considered normal.
Managed a ride recently and ben and Guinness were stars, but |Charlie is working daily at our new spot - cleaning out buildings that have been neglected for decades. Its very satisfying to see things look better , though theres much tpo do , and still havent decided what/where to put new building. Indoor school? Cattle shed instead? Horse pens?
Vanessa did persuade me where the field was to have the ridden work at next summer camp!Flat and about 2 1/2 acres. At the moment it has 3 piles in it - muck , old furniture/dead cat/rubbish, and the third is 'brash' from a felled tree , which will add to a surface in an indoor school.
I ve been working G at liberty , and also teaching liberty lessons. One is very interesting - in that in the lesson he was fine , but back home he stated in no uncertain terms that he was being pressurised [ introverted horse who has unknown but deep issues , new owner coping very well to give him confidence]. I mention this because we , myself included, can get task orientated . This horse needs a total lack of pressure , despite owners enthusiasm! - and real low energy stuff , listening for what the horse wants to say to you , rather than let it to do things.
One last thing is a cow story. Minnie lost a huge calf when it was born , though she tried hard to lick it into life. We got a foster calf wiythin an hour , but he didnt recognise her , and wouldnt suck. 2 hours later we try again , and this time got the calf on , then I remembered an old trick. I milked some of her milk onto my hands and rubbed it into the calf's coat. I mmediately she licked it off and took to the calf. In some part of her mind she knows she didnt birth him [ she lookewd to where the body had been taken for some hours ] yet so so thrilled to have a baby. This was only yeaterday and its hard to believe baby is a foster calf , they are so bonded.
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alex
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #151 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 10:08am »

Gerd started the day with an explanation of the photos. I am sure you will all appreciate that we can all be caught out in a moment in time and that the photographer was waiting for this, Gerd felt. The horse he described as between an elephant and an angry Rhino and the owner was coming for a last ditch attempt to gain some control. Gerd said it was without doubt the hardest horse he had dealt with and of course once he had got on he was committed. This is where to his own admittance he knows nothing of ground work outside the classical groundwork and is aware he needs it now he is older and finding that he is always given "problem" horses to deal with. Sound familiar? Before I went I had discussed the photos with friends and Pattie and Sophie had dealt with a horse of this type and told me they found them extremely strong in a moment with no warning.

Anyway, Gerd says it tanked straight off with him and he was attempting to hold it with his seat and give a constant contact that it would eventually hear which included following as it dropped down behind the bit. He was lifting it at the photo moment and it came up and got the point a few minutes later and he could ride in the forward seat with hands turned upside down on the inside rein ,with supporting outside to soften the back. After half an hour the owner rode and cried with relief. She wanted to put other photos up to show the result with an explanation but Gerd says he has had enough of on-line tit for tat.

Again, I saw nothing that I objected to in his day and I am inclined to believe him. Sometimes it does get ugly.

More on the day later as Gary is here and is READY to walk dogs so I better jump to it.
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heather
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #152 on: Sep 20th, 2010, 3:43pm »

Aaah, how patient one has to be with an introvert horse. Someone said you need to do things as slow as molasses with them. How true. I sometimes think that instead of a human selecting a horse, there ought to be an assessment of the two temprements before purchase. I have certainly had to look to myself and severely curb my impatience, competitiveness and single mindedness with H. The introvert just does not tollerate these traits, so it is a question of recognising it in onesself and altering the mindset if you are to get anywhere at all. It takes time but this self disipline has been really good for me. Dosn't always work, but it is WIP and always will be. At least you don't have the personal temprement problems Judith, you are calm and patient to a degree, so that in itself should pay dividends handsomely.

Poor Mummy moo, losing her calf, but what a lovely ending to a tragic story. I wonder what the calf died of -do you know?

Moyas picture on the beach is fab. The only time I have been out this year was to a yard weekend break at Holm-next-the-sea in Norfolk. For once the weather was terrific and H led the way on the beach with a selection of youngsters; quivvering wrecks both human and equine, tucked into his ample orange backside.
It was really good fun, but oh. Save me from gangs of girls under 25. Noise, drunken revellry and general out of controlled-ness. Me, old? yep. 'fraid so!

This summer has been a total loss as far as neddying is concerned. No shows, no dressage comps, no camps or clinics, no riding, no lessons, no anything. A combination of disasterous events has kept me short of time and money up until now, and today I have just received an appointment to go and see a surgeon regarding a knee replacement op. So I guess that will be another 6 months before that happens plus the recovery time.

I did manage to do one day at Carole Lockyer's though. Carole had set up the most amazing LeTrec course round her 10 acre field, and we spent all day there in the sunshine 'doing' it. We bumped into Diane, Ann, Liz and David and Alex, who so kindly did friendly on the ground whilst I was mounted, then passed me the stick so I could do friendly from on high. Harry was a total star all day considering he had not been ridden for so long. It was lovely to be amongst smiling horsy friends once again. Ooh, I have missed you all.

I have put myself down to do the clinic at Shuttlworth next weekend. I just hope we can do it some sort of justice as I have not ridden H for months other than a short hours hack out here and there. We will just have to take it gently.

Bumped into Caroline (Luna) yesterday. She is well and has just taught Luna flying changes. Counter canter figure of 8's and trot inbetween was her modus operandi. I thought - as I have accidentally done it in the past - that a flying change would be from a correct lead canter figure 8. If I ever get back to having a horse with a back, I will experiment. Perhaps though, I would learn more if I were to look it up first. Tonight's reading then.

Hope the mucking out of the barns is going well Judith. What about the house? Have you started to pack that yet? I cant begin to imagine what a mammouth task that will be. Oh yes, and whilst I think of it, did Charlie ever finish the table he was making during last winter. Was it a card table or something?

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Judith
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #153 on: Sep 20th, 2010, 8:50pm »

Alex,
Charlie and I have every sympathy with Dr H - a moment that looks bad and is photographed [ and these days up for discussion on 'tinternet immediately] can lead to all sorts of misinterpretations. Frieians do have incredibly bendy necks - probably their too high natural carriage , so would be prone to that shape when tanking off!
Phillippe Karl doesnt allow any photography in his clinics, although part of that reason is that he doesnt want students who have just had a lesson or so claiming he has endorsed their work.
Did you see any work with horses with the Dr , or was it a lecture only?
Heather - look forward to seeing you next weekend- hopefully do some A T with the knee? Glad you re rding H again. A friend of ours did very well at Ryedale show - in hand champion Highland - lovely 3 yr old - 2 weeks ago he developed a splint overnight - typical!
I m in Facebook contact with the owner of the introverted horse - she s trying liberty' on Valium' and learning lots about her horse. Its been a total eyeopener for her - she thought she was going to teach him things - the opposite has happened. Already she is getting a better relationship during the ridden work.
I can say I m often not a calm person at all, [ ask my children!] and I do have to be aware of my lack of patience at times - not with other horses , just my own! We all want to do 'well'- however we define that.

The move plans are still smoothly gliding on - something/someone is bound to make a ****up at some
stage- just hope its not a big one! The builders began today , taking out rubbish from the house and cottage . One of the builders did the same jobs here at the Manor 18 years ago!
Tomorrow the scaffolding should go up. I ve invested in a 'bisom' brush fro the cobwebs , as its so much lighter . Charlie comes back covered in dirt , and once the cobwebs and dust is gone there are lots of rotten beams to see in the old buildings. I nedd to Snowcem some of them before the animals go across. We ve been given a caravan for the duration from the son of friends - caravan used for rock festivals - but clean apparently!
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alex
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #154 on: Sep 22nd, 2010, 2:39pm »

Yes Gerd did ride.

2 things though first. Unlike Mark Raschid and maybe others I don't think any assessment of the horses fitness to be ridden was made. I am not sure how horses are chosen. Gillian what's-her-name from Horses Inside Out organised everything and her horse had some lunging at the end. I loved her horse bones but her horse in MHO is not a good advert for correct going but I don't think Gillian knows this. Her other work is good but the horse is dragged about and I think she is too busy to get it going well , maybe. It is a plank.

5 main horses. A 22 year old which was coming back after injury and the rider was nearly there and it was a super partnership. Little to fix. A very gangly eventer ridden surprisingly well by a competitive Pony Club official. She didn't kick and pull at the same time so why do they teach that to the children. But why did this poor horse need to have a competition career? No comment was made on suitability. Poor thing had very difficult conformation and had had several bouts of surgery! Gerd did the same thing on all horses to a degree. Ride them in a forward seat; light hands; supporting outside rein; hands turned upside down for lightness; often in trot; circle and shoulder in used alot and long sides for forward. Discussions about getting them long and low but taking the hand. Undoubtedly these horses improved. Shoulder in in downward transitions as well emphasized and on the circle with both haunches in and out. I remember Charlie doing this and it made a break through with Whisper.

The other 2 horses were basket cases mentally and me and my mates thought not able to be ridden. Ruined by competition. They so needed to be lunged the Pattie and Sophie way/ liberty and turned out for lots of R&R. Gerd tried hard with them and made a small window but each rider rode their horses after and these two riders could not let go at all. The horses needed to be taken into care! SAD. I don't think Gerd knew what to say to them in the short time he had as they couldn't let the reins out even when he walked with them telling them to. I did comment at the beginning of one ride that they had it in a flash so I don't think the rider and her mother had any idea of what Gerd is all about. The flash was taken off by Gerd but I expect it's back on tomorrow.

Off to airport in 2 hours and still haven't packed!!!! Don't want to go really. Have a good time at the clinic.

ALEX
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Judith
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #155 on: Sep 29th, 2010, 08:03am »

I do think Gerd has an uphill struggle - so depressing that so many people are taught badly and that competition is the end , not harmony and 'artistry'.
Many thanks for the Shuttleworth participants , who braved yet another freezing day! Even my room was somewhat cold , so not perfect for A T work. I thoroughly enjoyed my lessons , as its always good to work with those how wish to learn and listen! I know Charlie enjoyed his teaching too, so again many thanks for your continued support!
I only returned last night , after a short visit to a friend at Chesterfield. once again , as I ve asked this before , but if anyone knows someone in the Chesterfield area who is either N H , or wishes to ride 'slowly' out hacking , or could ideally give 24/7 summer turnout to 1 small horse , please let me know!

Last week was the coloured horse sale at |York - as expected there were many horses - modstly youngstock , and some just imported from Ireland. As you can imagine , many of these animals were in less than perfect condition . I believe horsesa re being abadoned in Ireland , and the rescues can hardly cope. Mistakenly people have believed coloureds will sell whatever their quality - not so! Luckily we didnt return with a horse - last thing we need is more equines!
Progress on the new farm - the house is being stripped down , and the roof will come off soon . BUildings still getting cleaner and C and David have mad a start on the tin sheds - they may look rubbish , but were built to last - unfortunately!
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alex
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #156 on: Oct 1st, 2010, 4:52pm »

Just back in UK to all this Rain. Uggh!

So what did the riders work on on the Sunday? Maybe I can catch up and have a theme for the next week.
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Vanessa
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #157 on: Oct 4th, 2010, 12:44pm »

Hello All
I can't believe it is over 5 weeks since I was at Sinnington - and had a fantastic time - learnt loads as always and we are continuing steadily progress, although upon his return home S of course challenged me 1st time in the home school - reared at me (1st time ever) but I sent him on (he was on the long line). There was another horse in the school at the time and I realised afterwards I was sending out bad vibes so maybe just a reflection/mirror of my angry thoughts. Especially as he hasn't done it since and he's done some good work for me with fewer 'hissy fits'! In fact, I've found that if I praise him more, we make more progress and he's not taking advantage as he did in the past. Incidentally, one of Charlie's lessons was about 3 types of rein - direct, indirect and huh - I can't remember. Any possibility of a brief re-explanation for me please?
I do like your concept, Alex, of a theme for the week. Any suggestions would be most welcome? Alex, how is Duke coming along?
Judith, Pleased to hear that work on the new farm is moving apace. Has the big conifer gone by now? I hope the roof was covered from the deluge of rain that descended on Yorkshire yesterday! I can't wait for summer camp next year at the new place! It will be lovely when all the refurbishment work has been completed - even the barn will have soul! I do hope things continue to progess and the tin huts have succumbed to demolition. You will get there in no time. I hope the winter doesn't throw too much bad weather whilst work is on-going.
I've been made redundant again, along with 90+ others due to Govt cuts so am on the big job hunt - got an interview in York on Wednesday so hope it goes well. By the way, Liz, I'm no longer tied to school hols so hopefully with a new job can make any dates for summer camp 2011!
Family are doing well and my grandaughter is coming along nicely - she can have 10 hours per day without her brace and is finally mobile!
Hope everyone's mud is not too thick and I look forward to any theme ideas! grin
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Judith
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #158 on: Oct 8th, 2010, 06:49am »

At last I m replying - I m afraid things are rather busy here ! is trying to remeber a particulat theme - but thinks he worked with each person to their needs. And getting the rider to work out what they and the horse needs at that point in time.
So, what might the pair of you need- dont over analise, just a quick thought that comes to mind?
vanessa- i was beginning to wonder where you were? I m not suprised S objected to the new regime back home - they are back in their environment and think old habits will continue. Praising him for good work is fine ,as long as its very clear poor work wont be tolerated! I m glad granddaughter is doing well, at least at her young age she s every chance of recovery and good development - not like our old bones!
The new place - well! about 10 men work in there daily , so everything happening at once - the roof has a membrane , but we ve upped the number of veluxes [ as it wasnt light enough] so the slates wont go back on ntil the extras are in. Electics, brickies,plumbers all in there . The fields have taken well , so are green with new seeded grass. The pond has been 'repuddled' so that rain water will head off to it [ when the drains get going] I m snowceming and bitumening - so far a tack room, feedroom, rug area and calving box done. Lots more to do, plus powercleaning fold yard etc. C hasnt got far with the tin sheds - they may look hopeless, but were built to last hundreds of years!! Why didnt they look after the proper buildings instead!? Still havent an exact leaving day , shall hang on as long as poss,to cut down time in a small caravan [ which we havent seen yet]
The horses are doing nothing - shoes off and having a lazy time. prices for horses are still rock bottom, and even lovely show cobs , with form are at least 25% lower than a yr ago.
Tomorrow we re getting up at 4 and heading off to HOYS at the NEC. We need to go that easrly to see the cobs , the LWs start at 7. Its the first time we ll have gone since Ben was last in the HWs in 2002. I intend to do some shopping for winter coats, boots,jods and a hat. When we do get moved and the horses are up, we ll be doing more roadwork, so will have to stop looking like atramp when I ride......
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #159 on: Oct 9th, 2010, 7:53pm »

Charlie and I went to HOYS today- up at 3.30 to get to see the LW cobs begin a t 7 am. 27 beautiful cobs , 9 of which wer coloured! In the HWs 4 coloureds . seems like no time at all since Ben was there. have to say the quality is so good now perhaps he wouldnt have done so well.....

Taking our seats later I saw the showjumping fences looked big, but not that big - say 3 foot to 3 6. But it was for riders of under 12 , with ponies of less than 128cms! They flew round , and nearly a quarter of them hit the deck, beause at that speed any run outs throw you off! i m not a great fan of show jumping , but these kids had'bottle' and 1 ,who had 3 in the jump off and won and was 2nd , was a cracking rider. Quiet ,balanced ,but focused!
We also watched Frederic Pignon, working with stallions at liberty. He was excellent - working up to 3 horses [ he had Lusos, and 2 friesians] and it was a harmonious and gentle programme. It wasnt foot perfect, but at no time did he pressurise the horses, just set it up again- smiling all the while! At one point a stallion stood on his whip [ he only carried 1 schooling whip, an only used it for direction and cues], so it took a while to set up the next move! It was his firs t UK visit , I m sure bits of it will appear on you tube.
So, inspiration all round!
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #160 on: Oct 12th, 2010, 7:09pm »

Having sang Frederic Pignons praises , I ve looked him up on 'tinernet , and found his book 'GALLOP TO FREEDOM' on Amazon. I love his philosphy - lovely pictures, and cant fault his training methods. To learn that he hasnt a closely choreographed programme dailly, but goes with what the horses offer , made me understand the fluidness of the whole programme at \hoys.
Ask for this book for xmas!
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #161 on: Oct 13th, 2010, 1:08pm »

The book sounds a great Xmas pressie - I shall head over to Amazon very soon! and then have a word with my Mum!
I like to do different things day to day as I'm sure the horses get bored but thought an underlying theme would be a good thing! However I've taken your advice Judith and am trying not to analyse too much (a habit of mine - I do think alot - way too much sometimes! Having helped another lady on the yard yesterday to try and de-sensitise her horse (big warmblood) to clipping by using a sports massager (for the noise and vibration similarity to clippers) and allowing him to move or stand with them on (rewarding standing by turning off). We had success - he touched them with his nose and relaxed even when they were on and have suggested she continue for a few days to get him standing all of the time. He is the big grey that Charlie worked with when he came to us earlier this year and has a total phobia about clippers and insecurities - no doubt a bad experience in a previous home. I thought I would try S today - well he never batted an eyelid - didn't move anywhere and accepted the massager over his shoulder, neck, chest and girth in a very short space of time - I was so pleased with him. He's never been clipped or had clippers around him so for him just to accept it unflinchingly was great. Guess that's partially down to his bold personality but I also like to think that we have built up some trust between us too which helped in accepting this strange buzzing sensation! A positive for sure. Guess clipping is my theme - and I didn't even think too much!
HOYS sounds so interesting - did you do the shopping extravaganza too? A friend of mine did say that a friend of hers had been and she'd found the entry costs quite extravagant too!
Pleased to hear that things are moving along at the new place - sounds like you've got lots done. Whilst the weather holds, hopefully you can get plenty completed - it's such an enormous task - house, land and outbuildings but it will all come together. I wouldn't fancy a little caravan in the winter either!
Didn't get the job so still on the hunt - it's such a demoralising task with not much out there to apply for! However I will have to stick at it. In the meantime, I'm enjoying lots of horse time!
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #162 on: Oct 13th, 2010, 5:22pm »

Yorkshire seems much the theme of this week! I listened to the very interesting programme on the rejuvenation of the Helmsley apple orchard; the book sounds good for the Christmas list too. George amped for the weekend and walked Wensleydale for Silver DofE walking.

I sometimes set myself a theme, sorry Judith, to see what it throws up that needs to be sorted. This week I thought I would work on my forward seat and achieve what I could in this position without it becoming task orientated. I had started this last week and had had a lesson with the lovely Jean to check my forward position. We never even started it. Other things cropped up immediately. One is Duke just starting to snatch the reins so that became his theme and mine to avoid it. I quite quickly got back into the hind quarter yield sticking so that has been the focus of last couple of days along with closing the arena gate mounted. In fact, I managed to ride in a forward and/or lighter seat quite a bit and all the above meant that we achieved closing the gate because these things were hindering us anyway!

Lots of half halts from the seat really helped and of course that's not easy in a forward seat...

Life's so circular isn't it?
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Judith
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #163 on: Oct 15th, 2010, 4:18pm »

Vanessa- re a job- any further thoughts on re training?I can see you working with horses and Bowen so well.Try not to panic or be downhearted, easier said than done, but I m sure the right thing is out there.
What a brilliant job with the clipping - textbook on how to do it. i m not at all suprised S took it in his stride - he s afraid of very little! With all the time you can be with him , I m expecting great things from you both!
Alex, I quite understand your themes - I ve certainly had many sessions where I intended to do 1 thing and had to build something else first, and Im sure you and Duke are doing well. Interesting that he s now snatching at the reins - new habit? - or are you working him differently? Is he still changing shape?
Watching 'you tube' videos of F Pignon and related topics -high school work by Lusos etc, I can quite see how the Iberian horses look magnificent doing the classical movements. Duke would certainly have the 'form' for it.

There were 14 men working at Cornborough yesterday - from chimney stacks to the kitchen floor - things moving forward , but still a long way to go. I hope the horses dont get injured, as most of the vet cupboard is now over there!
We ve spent 2 days powerhosing the foldyard , and the first load of machinery has gone over. haylage bales next.
The top surface of the indoor school has been removed - tho not sure how to transport it! I m sure I ll miss that indoor area, even though I didnt use it as much as I should have.

Our website will have to have a new name - 'cornborough' is already taken [ Devon B&B] 'corn grange' gone too, as has every combination of Charles and wilson or horsemanship and natural etc [ except very long titles, and as our email comes through the website the bit after the @ is the website whole name, we dont want another long address] so any short snappy name combining [or not] charles, wilson, cornborough, grange, horsemanship,or any words that come to mind to describe what we do. Suggestions welcome!


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Judith
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xx Re: Summer Camp 2010
« Reply #164 on: Oct 25th, 2010, 08:12am »

The website is very quiet at the moment1 theres been some nice sunny days here , and the hunt has been cubbing nearby . I think in a years time C will be getting Guinness ready fro a hunting season - I think he ll love it, and be sensible enough for an elderly person to ride!
Due to my error, our yearling youngster got away from you , got 'giddy' and ended up tearing her chest open on the bolt ends in the big shed. Horses skin is so thin! I m sure the cattle wouldnt even have a bruise if they d done what she did. ANyway, she was stapled together ,for about 6inches or so, by a locum vet. The staples made a good job , but after a week of being in , and about to go totally 'stir crazy' we put her and her pal out yesterday - sure enough some of the staples have disappeared and no doubt she ll get proud flesh there. I m still amazed at how accident prone horses are.....
We are now into the last 10 day s of being here , which is very strange. The house over there is no where like being finished, even though the builders are working hard. The fencing people are coming this week, so add another couple of small fields around the house . I m dreading setting the youngsters out there ....may well be another vet visit.....
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